MyDD :: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team

Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team

by Politicalslave, Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 11:42:59 AM EST

I think it is safe to say Senator Obama will announce his VP choice next week in fact I predict it will be Thursday August 21st because on that day Senator Clinton will be in Florida. I'm saying this as a long time Obama supporter who has come to the conclusion that Obama has always considered Clinton the front runner because she will win the White House for him and us.

Like all on the "shortlist" she isn't perfect but damm close
She offers Obama more Votes, Real unity, a fighter like no other, and vetted. As many of you know I think the Obama campaign has been planning this for awhile and really want to get the biggest bounce out of this surprise announcement.

When Clinton chose Gore the "bounce" was a staggering 11 points.
I don't know if we could get that kind of bounce but I'm sure we will receive historical media attention and all for free.

Announcing in Florida would be a perfect location to introduce the "Dream Team" The press would go crazy and of course on the weekend all the political talk shows will be talking about "How did we miss this"

On Monday the convention starts and the ratings go through the roof. Unity will be a reality not a catch phrase to the millions watching this. Chelsea will introduce her Mother on Tuesday and I predict Bill will introduce his wife on Wednesday. Thursday Obama will make a great speech and the ratings will bury the McCain/Romney ticket.

Lately the Obama campaign has been "giving in" to Clinton for example Florida and Michigan will have full voting rights at the convention. Now some kind of Roll call. Her own production team and the list goes on.
Hillary and Bill will have major roles and even Chelsea will be involved. Obama doesn't seem to be afraid of giving Senator Clinton "Carte Blanche" at all which fits with his "team of rivals" message..

Text messaging Clintons name will be explosive. You can't say that about any of the names mentioned on the "shortlist"
Clinton has an organization and a former husband who will fight for the White House and by choosing her the Clintons can't run against him in four years.

Clinton is the obvious choice for good reason she helps him in so many areas and they will make history by winning together and that's change we can believe in.

I'm really wondering how the Obama campaign will tease us with text messages. Will they send one stating "In 24 hours we will announce Obama's running mate" How much are they going to build this up? How much teasing will they do? Will they give us a "Warning shot" or just announce the running mate?
Personally I'm sure they will tease us.

Will Obama be in Florida on Thursday August 21st? I don't know.
Clinton is scheduled to be in Florida though.

Have I broken the "VP CODE" I don't really know but this could be the last running mate we can speculate on for many years so forgive me for being excited about Obama and his running mate. Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Poll

Votes: 8
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Tags: Dream Team, Announcement, Florida August 21 (all tags)

Permalink :: 56 Comments :: Post a Comment

I hope you are right (none / 0)

but I don't think you are. I would say it's 2-1 against.

by JJE on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 11:51:13 AM EST

Re: I hope you are right (2.00 / 2)

Join the club. Ha ha Yes there aren't too many "true believers" but my motto today is "no guts no glory" maybe No code. Cheers

by Politicalslave on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:14:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope you are right (none / 0)

You've got the guts. I hope you get the glory too.

by LakersFan on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 01:48:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope you are right (none / 0)

Thanks Lakersfan we will know a lot more by this time next week.

by Politicalslave on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 05:52:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

the "catharsis" thing was the moment (2.00 / 1)

I was leaning toward thinking it might STILL be Senator Clinton, but, I think the "catharsis" thing was the final straw, it should at least to me, these two camps CAN'T work together, would always be jockeing for position.

Too bad, I agree with a lot of what you say, Senator Clinton on the ticket is THE single most helpful from a pure vote point of view. (Yeah, she hurts in some places, but I think he is going to have a tough time there even with out here, and she helps in places he can use the help.)

But, again, I think, the "catharsis" thing was a bellweather moment, this is not to be.

On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....

by WashStateBlue on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 11:55:49 AM EST

Re: the "catharsis" thing was the moment (2.00 / 1)

I know exactly what you are saying. I'm hoping this is part charade mixed with reality. If not I'm in big trouble.

by Politicalslave on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:10:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the "catharsis" thing was the moment (none / 0)

Well, it sure didn't LOOK like a head feint to me, I think the Obama camp WAS pissed about that word.

He was OK with it being a tribute, but Hillary et all kept drilling the catharsis meme, and if you saw Obama, his comment about "we don't need a catharsis" was as about as angry as I have seen him.

I know I am going to get flamed for this, but, I think the Clintons were willing to sabatoge it, OR they already knew it was going to someone else, because that phrase WAS picking a fight, and raising "the bitter Clinton supporters" who haven't switched to martyr status IMO.

When I saw that, my brain said, the Clintons know it's NOT going to be her for sure now, and they want to make it clear to the party, she is the next in line for 2012 if Obama loses...

On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....

by WashStateBlue on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:17:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

Hey I hope you won't get crushed when it doesn't happen

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 11:56:15 AM EST

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (2.00 / 1)

I won't be crushed but my neck will be cut off for sticking it out too far. Ha ha

by Politicalslave on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:02:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

One Question (none / 0)

How does Obama counteract the McCain ads in which his own vice presidential nominee says that McCain is more qualified to be president?

by Cincinnatus on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 11:58:18 AM EST

Re: One Question (2.00 / 1)

I don't know what Clinton said but McCain will attack no matter who Obama picks.

by Politicalslave on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:04:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary says (none / 0)

"oh, that was in the heat of the primary" blah blah blah. The ability to pull off a sudden brazen about-face is a Clinton specialty and a valuable asset.

by JJE on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:08:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One Question (none / 0)

Maybe with the video of her endorsement. How do you think he should counter that ad?

by niksder on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 03:33:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One Question (none / 0)

I think it's pretty difficult. On the one hand, if she's not his pick, that's just the opinion of one of his opponents in the primary. But if she's on the bottom of the ticket I think it could really hurt to have that footage of her saying the man on the top of the ticket isn't qualified to be there played over and over.

by Cincinnatus on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 03:37:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One Question (none / 0)

I agree it wouldn't look good. Point taken

by Politicalslave on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 05:54:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (2.00 / 1)

Biden will be the VP. Obama will be in Virginia on Thursday, and on Friday he will be in DC with Biden. That is what I think is going to happen.

by Spanky on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:03:22 PM EST

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (2.00 / 2)

Biden would be a political disaster in my view.

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:05:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

Why? I would have thought you would like a Biden pick. He's moderate, experienced, and believes in a responsible but relatively muscular foreign policy.

by HSTruman on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:22:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (2.00 / 1)

Are you kidding?

If Hillary Clinton isn't an okay pick because she voted for AUMF and doesn't fit into his theme of "change" and doing politics a "new way", then Joe Biden is a total disaster. Biden is the most Washigton-insidery, sold-his-soul-to-the-banking-industry, voted-for-AUMF guy there is in Congress. Besides, he's pompous, long-winded and boring.

by LakersFan on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 01:56:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

Yeah, but what do you really think of him?

Look, he's not my first choice, and for the record I have no problem with Obama picking Clinton if that's the route he wants to go. But I hardly think Biden would be the disaster you describe. He makes a very effective attack dog, he's extremely comfortable talking about foreign policy, and - like most democrats - has conceded that Iraq was a mistake. At the very least, I think he's a better choice than Bayh or Kaine. Which, admittedly, isn't really saying much.

by HSTruman on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 02:03:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

He probably is better than Bayh or Kaine. And that definitely isn't saying much in my book. Biden has the foreign policy credentials going for him. But I just don't see him as an effective campaigner (a few good lines in the debates did not make me forget about how long-winded he usually is).

by LakersFan on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 02:14:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

Fair points.

by HSTruman on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 03:39:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

And it's fair to say he wouldn't be a "disaster", just not very exciting.

by LakersFan on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 05:05:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

As you know I like Biden a real passionate guy.
I just think Clinton would bring more to the ticket. Thanks.

by Politicalslave on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:06:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (2.00 / 1)

Yup...I agree.

Well, he was my choice #3, after Wes and Hillary.

But, thank good it's not Mr Excitement Evan Bayh.

I have a box of milkbone for the dog that generates more raw energy then Evan.

On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....

by WashStateBlue on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:06:31 PM EST

Not going to happen (none / 0)

There are pros and cons to picking Clinton; and one can make good arguments both for and against it. But it is not gonna happen, because I think Obama does not like Clinton and Obama is not one who can easily overcome his feelings. See what he did to Rangel.

So it aint going to be Clinton.

by ann0nymous on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:12:15 PM EST

Re: Not going to happen (none / 0)

Yeah, like the Clintons are the "forgive and forget" type.

Know the LAST person that demanded a roll call vote?

It was Dennis K. in Bills second term I think, and the Clinton's from the rumors STILL hate Dennis for it.

On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....

by WashStateBlue on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:20:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You miss my point (none / 0)

I never said that Clintons are forget and forgive type. Although, I am not sure, what is to be forgiven. The difference is that Clintons if they thought Obama would be a big plus, they would have picked Obama. On the other hand, Obama would not pick Clinton unless he was absolutely sure about it.

BTW, I am not sure that this is necessarily a bad thing. It is Obama's personality and I find nothing wrong with it. Most people would do the same.

by ann0nymous on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 01:29:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not going to happen (2.00 / 1)

You may be right that Clinton isn't his favorite person but I go back to what Obama said when talking about his VP pick in May. I'm a practical minded guy I will choose the person that can best win me the White House.

by Politicalslave on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:21:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not going to happen (none / 0)

I'm NOT sure it's about anger?

My take is, the Clintons knew it wasn't going to be her by the time of the "catharsis" statement.

But, if not, what is did was, it gave those in the Obama VP camp who were selling the meme that the Clintons would be ALWAYS jockying for position the winning hand IMO.

So, if it wasn't dead, that killed it, anger had not a lot to do with it IMO.

Cause, I'm like you. If Axelrod and Obama though Senator Clinton was "their only shot" they would have brokered the deal.

Evidently, again IMHO, they think it's not, and I pray they are right.

On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....

by WashStateBlue on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:25:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (2.00 / 1)

Please don't forget to vote and Rec if you can find it in your hearts. I have to go to work. Thank you everyone we are going to kick McCain's butt.

by Politicalslave on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:23:58 PM EST

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

You got it.

Rec'ed

On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....

by WashStateBlue on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:25:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I can only see this happening at (2.00 / 1)

the convention; if Obama says that he'll hold off until the convention, that's the clue.

I disagree completely with your theory that it's been HRC all along; however, Obama may flip this next week and give the lady a call.

He's in Richmond next Thursday by the way, she's in Florida.

If it happens next week, I think it'll be on Friday since that would give her an opportunity to be there as he announces his veep.

by Blazers Edge on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 01:03:01 PM EST

Re: I can only see this happening at (none / 0)

Obama is in Richmond? Well that doesn't help me does it? Ha Ha. Maybe there is a Richmond Florida?
No. Thanks for comments Blazer I respect your opinion.

by Politicalslave on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 06:03:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

I've always felt that Obama would pick Clinton only if he felt he had to in order to win the election. When Obama was soaring in the polls a few weeks ago, it looked very unlikely to me. However, with the polls tightening up, it may be a possibility. Biden seems like a terrible choice if the polls are tight, as I think he adds the least in terms of electability. With tight polls, I would expect Clinton, Kaine, and perhaps

Jim Martin for Senate!

by markjay on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 01:37:46 PM EST

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

Whoops, I got cut off. Anyway, with tight polls, I would expect Clinton or Kaine (or perhaps Schweitzer) to be good choices.

Jim Martin for Senate!

by markjay on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 01:39:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

I agree and Davis Gergen said the same thing as you a few weeks ago. Cheers

by Politicalslave on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 06:07:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

Well, if you think the polls are tightening, and it is getting WORSE for Obama (I don't) then it leads to my idea that the Clinton camp is and has sabotaged the dream ticket, cause more and more, they think Hillary is up to bat in 2012?

The Catharsis thing was clearly a message, we will NOT play ball, and IMO, was simply a statement "don't even think of offering us the VP!"

So, for folks like you and Nakkid, my take is, it's NOT that Obama might not ask if the polls get tighter, but, in fact, it's more likely the Clintons turn it down, and roll the dice on 2012.

On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....

by WashStateBlue on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 01:47:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's looking at things (none / 0)

pretty pessimistically; I doubt most folks even know the meaning of the word "catharsis."

I think it's hard to impugn her motives (Big Dog is another story). She's out there for Obama on Sunday in New Mexico; it'll be around the tenth appearance that she will have made on behalf Obama in addition to helping him raise money. I agree that going public with her "catharsis" proposal was a mistake (she had to know she was being recorded) but we don't know the full story; perhaps Obama was just giving her the end-around in their conversations and she wanted to send him a stinger.

Ambinder is reporting that submitting her name into nomination was Obama's idea; I'm not sure if that's true but we're losing the media narrative as some are portraying HRC's move in the same way you are, a way to dump on Obama's moment. The Obama camp should push back harder before that narrative develops.

by Blazers Edge on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 01:53:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's looking at things (none / 0)

I consider it extremely unlikely that HRC would turn down an invitation to be VP. Whether she is on the ticket or not, Obama is still the favorite to be president, and Obama's VP thus becomes the favorite to be the succeeding president.

Jim Martin for Senate!

by markjay on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 02:00:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Evidence on her commitment to an Obama win (none / 0)

is a bit mixed.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/1 1/politics/politico/main4336774.shtml

She should be VP simply because it's the only way to ensure they're both fully committed.

by JJE on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 02:22:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

I'm going with you on this politicalslave.

I will be devastated if she is NOT the VP pick.

Joe Biden is a great Senator - he got what 3% of primary voters? As if Delaware is a state that even matters? C'mon. Maybe secy' of state...but vp? are you serious.

Tim Kaine - piss off every woman out there and that leaves McCain open to chosing a female running mate to counteract this. Same with Evan Bayh.

And all Bayh and/or Kaine really bring to the table is MAYBE - MAYBE VA or IN.

Hillary brings MILLIONS of votes. She brings white working class, possibly Arkansas, certainly puts FL, OH, PA, NV in REAL running.

He has not gained ground on HRC supporters since last month - he as anywhere from 72-78% - but that's NOT ENOUGH to win the whitehouse.

So - I am going to try and stay positive and hope you are right - anything else I will be upset.

Either way - I'm going to Denver next Sat.....

I either will be going as a Protestor or riding the Unity Pony.....I'm really hoping it's the Unity Pony.....

by nikkid on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 01:41:26 PM EST

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

Exactly, the Clintons are COUNTING on you to protest, the press will eat it up, fixate, and help keep Obama from the bounce...

And, BOOM, McCain wins and Hillary, with she and Bills two nights at the convention, are off and running for 2012 as the STILL leaders of the party.

If Obama was WAY AHEAD, they would be more interested in cutting the deal.

They just threw it overboard with "catharsis."

On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....

by WashStateBlue on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 01:50:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

Instead of looking at this so negatively, look at the situation from the perspective of a very smart political campaign.

The media is counting on Clinton supporters to protest. In fact they will exaggerate any stories about Clinton supporters protesting. This is a given. We already know this is the MSM's storyline

What's the best way to take all of the wind out of the media's joy at reporting about all of the divisiveness and dissension within the party?

Announce a unity ticket. No more protesters. Lots of happy Democrats. Now the media has to give positive coverage because that's the big story.

But you can't give them this story too far in advance of the convention, or else the media will dig up some other negative story about Dems during the convention. This is the perfect way to completely control the media's coverage of the convention.

by LakersFan on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 02:09:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

Lakerfan, you know I would be very happy to see the Dream Ticket, but, (and I do expect to get bashed for this) I think NOW the Clintons are trying to sabatoge it, so she is set up for 2012, without having to literally turn it down formally?)

It doesn't matter that 90% of the American population doesn't know what catharsis means, the Obama folks do.

It was a message.

We don't want a "Forging of an alliance" moment, we want a moment that points out how destroyed our supporters were...

Anyway, as I said, I expect to get kicked to the curb for this theory, but kind of fun to speculate.

Working on a diary on it now.

On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....

by WashStateBlue on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 02:21:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree that it was a message (2.00 / 1)

but I think you are drawing an unreasonable inference from the message; she sent Obama a stinger for sure. But we don't know the reason behind the stinger.

Look at it from the perspective of an older sister/younger brother situation. I look at it as a love tap from the older sister; it hurts momentarily, but it'll heal overtime. What can you say about the party?

Unlike the pubs, this party can never just fall in line like zombies, which they have not necessarily behind McCain but against Obama. All the pubs that I know here in "liberal" Washington state are pretty fired up to go against Obama. I haven't met one Obamacan and the latest Pew poll at least, shows that McCain is closing in on the same pub support that Bush received against Kerry and Gore.

The "big tent" philosophy is a blessing and a fatality at the same time. HRC is right, it's one dysfunctional family.

by Blazers Edge on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 02:30:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree that it was a message (none / 0)

Wow, we are talking to a different crew here in WA state.

Most of my Repub friends are monied microsofties and they are voting Obama/Rossi.....

But, I hear your arguement, and it is a very good one.

Believe me, no one be happier to eat my words, and see Hillary on the ticket then I.

On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....

by WashStateBlue on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 02:36:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

Your concern is noted.

by LakersFan on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 02:40:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

If it isn't Clinton then we will still make history. Go to Denver it will be historic. You will be able to say you were there. I'm so jealous. If Obama chooses someone else there must be a reason. I trust his judgment. There is a lot we don't know. Have FUN in Denver and if Clinton is picked you owe me a diary.

by Politicalslave on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 06:15:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

If Clinton is picked - I'LL BUY YOU A ROUND OF SHOTS!!! ANYWHERE!!! Name the place!!!

and yes,

a Diary too.

by nikkid on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 08:22:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

Deal!

by Politicalslave on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 01:25:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday August 21st Florida / Dream Team (none / 0)

Although I hope Clinton will be the VP choice, it's not going to happen. Obama just doesn't feel comfortable with the Clintons, and the fact that she is the featured speaker on Tuesday night rules her out.

Most likely the VP nominee is either a person already scheduled to speak on Wednesday night or is a person not yet put on the schedule. This suggestst that the nominee will be Salazar, Richardson, Biden, Bayh or Kaine.

Dizzy Zzyzzy

by Zzyzzy on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 02:00:32 PM EST

If you want to feel some "unity" (none / 0)

check out the new "Baracky" video; it is made by some with too much time on their hands but it's funny to envision Big Dog as Paulie.

McCain as Mr.T is the most ironic and yet true analogy.

by Blazers Edge on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 02:06:21 PM EST

ho ho. (1.00 / 1)

funn-ee.

clinton got a nice stage to sing her political swan song on, and that's all she's getting. after this, it's back to being an ineffectual senatorial sellout for a few years prior to penning the next interminable installment in her memoirs and retiring to a nice beach somewhere.

by rabidnation on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 03:28:45 PM EST

Disagree with your logic. (none / 0)

----

If Obama was going to pick Hillary, he wouldn't be giving in on all this stuff.

The only reason he'd give them everything they want is because she's not the pick and he's trying to cushion the blow.

by Bush Bites on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 04:20:54 PM EST

Re: Disagree with your logic. (none / 0)

I think most people would and do agree with you. To me it seems a little much but I could be wrong
and many people would agree with that. Thanks for your opinion.

by Politicalslave on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 06:19:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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