I can't be the only one who gets this feeling

Maybe I'm nuts or unhinged or maybe I'm not. Perhaps its stress or the nerves acting up.  I need to lay off watching the news and politics.  Though something tells me I'm not gonna shake off this feeling I keep getting. Maybe some of you have felt this weird sense of dread too.

Essentially at times, I feel as if I'm being held hostage.  I get this sense of dread and this is accompanied by a feeling of dismay towards my fellow human beings.  This feeling tends to occur when I hear McCain leading here or there with some segment of the population.  Actually, not just good news about McCain, but in conservatives or Republicans in general.

Recently we've all been hearing the news about that McCain ad that basically implies that Obama is the anti-Christ.  Heck, probably have seen it too, I know I have.  "No, they can't be this gullible," I said to myself, as my eyes poured over that clip.  But then, a sinister spark goes off in the crevices of my feeble mind, and a cloud of cynicism takes over.  "Yes, Johnny, they are" it says to me quietly, repeating the mantra.  I'll get a flash of images in my mind, Jesus Camp kinda stuff, and then that pang in my stomach.  

That unease always confirms it somehow in me.  Maybe I'm off base here, and a bunch of you know doubt (and perhaps correctly) will point out that we will win.  There's that change thing going on, and folks are supposedly pissed at the GOP.  Yet, watching the latest poll numbers, I asked myself this one question:

"If the country is really fed up with Bush and his kind, why wasn' Barack's lead lager to begin with?"

Now, McCain is either behind or ahead by a couple of digits.  I start to get that hostage feeling again.  Here we are, a group of forward thinking people and yet we actually face the possibility of having to living under a government that is completely backwards to logic.  And why?  Because we progressives are essentially held hostage by a large group of regressive superstitious gullible idiots who believe what their emails tell them.

Ok, perhaps superstitious was a wee bit going to far.  I've come across those who are religious who are also very liberal.  But I think you can gather as to whom I am talking about.  And this really gets me, because it isn't just the religious right.  Working class folks who ought to know better could be pulling the lever for John Airbus McCain!

Why...as someone who wants a cleaner Earth and more investment in jobs or equal rights for even my GLBT friends or heck even programs to help the poor, why I ask you must I live under a government that would espouse the opposite?  In 2000 I voted for Gore, and my vote was essentially spat upon by the Supreme Court.  2004 was simply a repeat, but with a different sent of bastards.  

Democracy, yes, we must live with what the voters choose.  The people have a right to elect their folks to make up government.  Yet 2000 wasn't Democracy in the end.  And 2004 and perhaps now we have a half ass version, except instead of a group of judges, it will be blinded voters!  Blinded by ignorance, blinded by hate, and blinded by their wacky perceptions that if they vote the GOP way they'll be part of the club.

When I was a Republican, thoughts like that crossed my mind, and the same for many others.  "I'm gonna be rich someday, why screw myself with taxes" or some other nonsense that economic conservatives always thought.  Its almost similar with other groups who vote "R".  I've met mothers who have kids in Iraq or some other place, and actually feel that voting for the man from AZ is supporting their boys!  Personally, if my kids were in Iraq, the opposite would be true, bring 'em home would be in my heart.

You want an America you can be proud of.  You want a country that has a clean environment.  A country that you don't need a college degree to put food on the table for your family and provide for what they need.  The list goes on and on.  Yet, despite (in spite)of our wishes to make this a better place, we have this wall.  I want to call it the stupidity wall, but its worse than that.

Tomorrow I am taking my mother to the hospital for some tests.  She's been having further complications since her heart attack.  My mother has no insurance, and cannot afford it.  She has to take time off of work to go all the way to Stroger Hospital way in the city, because to go near here in the 'burbs would financially kill her.  That feeling in my gut returns, because of that wall, that wall of voters essentially preventing my mother from getting proper health coverage.

Don't get me wrong, I love democracy.  Yet, and forgive me if I sound elitist here, I think some folks are too damn stupid to vote.  Ok, I said it, and surprisingly no guilt.  But frankly, my mind and heart and soul are tired of being afraid. I fear for my family and friends not from some supposed terrorist attack, but from the uncertainties in life that we could attempt to alleviate.  Yet, ironically enough, it is fear that is feeding that wall.  Civil rights, jobs, universal health, education, all held up by the wall waiting to be shot at by another Republican administration.



Display:


forgive my cynicism tips jar (2.00 / 10)

Perhaps I'm getting these feelings over nothing.


by johnny venom on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 04:33:49 AM EST

Re: forgive my cynicism tips jar (none / 0)

You don't sound elitist, you sound like a jerk.

Supporting McCain is not about being stupid its about them having a different value set than you.  Some people honestly believe that gov health care is the wrong way to go.  It has nothing to do with your mom but just what they believe.  
So get over yourself, stop whining and wallowing in your self absorbed, poor me pity party.  

Instead, get out there, register new voters, donate money, tell your story, change their minds, do all you can and work your ass off to get the Big O in the Whitehouse.

Don't blame. Work to improve the community you are in.


by gil44 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 10:03:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Some of us have more than sufficient energy (none / 0)

to hate our redneck fellow citizens and do all the stuff necessary to elect Obama.  It's not an either or propostion.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 11:00:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Some of us have more than sufficient energy (2.00 / 1)

if you think all of Mclames support comes from 'rednecks' then there are two true things to take away from that statement of yours. One is that you have no clue what 'redneck' means or who they are, and two, you are a bigot.


by zerosumgame on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 11:33:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Some of us have more than sufficient energy (none / 0)

I've got more than enough energy to despise ignorant bloggers who troll diaries, too.  


by ReillyDiefenbach on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:34:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Some of us have more than sufficient energy (none / 0)

so you have enough energy to deal with yourself? uh, ick. make sure you wipe the keyboard one of these days...


by zerosumgame on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 07:55:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's just that you are doing hard work. (2.00 / 9)

This is the "wounded in battle" burden we accept for not having to be actually physically Wounded In Battle.

Everyone says that "marriage is hard".  That it's "hard" to keep a relationship together for a long time.  Donna and I have been together for 25 years, I know that everyone is right.  But what is "hard"?

It's not the kind of "hard" like: "carrying something really heavy up a long staircase.   It's not the kind of "hard" like "let's take out that pillbox" or "we're down 27 points at halftime, let's go out and win!".  There isn't any physical pain you can take pills for, you don't get to have a badge or scar that shows that you took fire at Da Nang, that you were brave in battle, that you chopped down a tree faster than anyone else at the Fair.

It's a different kind of "hard", and in many ways it's harder.  There isn't any end to it, no trophy, no coming home knowing you've survived, no "Thank god that's over, we won!".

This is the kind of "hard" that keeping a civil society together presents us with.  It's a "sour pit of the stomach" hard, a "lonely and exhausted and unable to think" hard.  The only compensation for it is a moment of quiet contemplation and satisfaction, a squeeze of the hand, with luck a kind word to show that somebody knows how hard it was for you.

I generally don't have to do anything really "hard" anymore.  I don't have to work in a 120-degree warehouse hand-bombing tons of magazines (or rocks. seriously) anymore.  I don't have to dig tons of soil in the blazing sun anymore.  I don't have to climb into the three-foot cube of the maw of a jammed industrial paper-shredder and spend hours tearing misprinted Sears catalogues from between rows of sharp teeth.

Now I do those sorts of things for recreation, as a break from doing the much harder work of trying to keep the societies of my family, my company, my country and my world from flying apart.  The staggeringly hard job of controlling my fingers and controlling my tongue and forcing them to put thoughts together that will somehow make these societies function, to grow, to survive.  Sometimes - with incredible good fortune - to prosper.

It would be much easier if all we had to do was move that pile of rocks from here to there to solve the problems of the world.  We'd move the damn things, then we'd sit with a cold drink and our bloodied hands and look at our accomplishment.

Don't be cynical, just be aware.  Just know that by keeping your head (when you can), by using your words and your ears and your mind that the world around you continues to exist, that children grow and play in it more, that your mother's life is a bit better than it could be.

You are doing the hardest work that there is.

Feel proud.

-chris


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 05:55:12 AM EST

Too stupid to vote... (2.00 / 4)

News flash: you're right.  The bad news is, the right wing always seem better able to mobilize the fool demographic.  That's their advantage.  It's one reason I am alwa6s amazed by the elitism of groups like National Review and all the energy they put into trying to construct a rational framework to justify a political movement based on base appeals to idiots.


by Dumbo on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 06:38:14 AM EST

Re: Too stupid to vote... (2.00 / 3)

It's another reason why they want to destroy education in this country... good source of cheap labor and prevents people from voting democratic!


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 09:40:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Recced (2.00 / 4)

and I know exactly the feeling you speak of.

It some ways it's not the GOP politicians we fight, it's the morons that wan America to live that way. Fellow citizens.


by Neef on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 08:19:06 AM EST

No need to fight the morons. (none / 0)

If they're as stupid as we claim, they should be easily led.  It's our job to find how to make them vote the right way for the wrong reasons.


by corph on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:31:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I can't be the only one who gets this feeling (1.85 / 7)

Yet, and forgive me if I sound elitist here, I think some folks are too damn stupid to vote

Sadly, I have to agree with you. And you don't sound elitist. You just sound... correct.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 08:38:09 AM EST

Because 90% of the population has (2.00 / 2)

its mind made up years in advance, and the 10% who are swing voters are typically low information morons.


by Geekesque on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 09:18:08 AM EST

Re: Because 90% of the population has (2.00 / 2)

Ahem. Swing voter here. Not remotely low information, nor a moron.


by SuGeAtARC on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 12:13:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I can't be the only one who gets this feeling (2.00 / 1)

My advice? Relax, settle in with a loved one, dream about the future and rest up for tomorrow. If I might suggest a song, listen to Big Star's Ballad of El Goodo. The chorus is something that helps me when I start feeling down.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 09:18:10 AM EST

Interesting (2.00 / 2)

While I think too many Americans are foolishly blinded by style over substance and talking points over actual policy, I'm not willing to say any of them shouldn't vote.  Part of our job as progressives is to bring them over to our side, at least the ones that can be.  If 50%+1 of the population is against us out of stupidity, we aren't doing our jobs.


by ProgressiveDL on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 09:21:00 AM EST

I disagree (2.00 / 1)

While I share most of your fears and concerns, I do not think that anyone is too stupid to vote.  Voting is, in my mind, the duty of every citizen.  People should vote even if they're completely uninformed and will just flip a coin, or are misinformed and will make a disasterous choice, because that's the only way that the citizens will really own the country.

We saw the results in 2006, when the public turned on Republicans with a vengence because they started to own up to their earlier errors.  If Democrats win the presidency this year, it'll be because people who chose not to vote before voted, and who made voting mistakes in the past stepped up to correct them.

This is how democracy works.  It's not always as quick or as just as we'd like it to be, but in the end, it's better than the alternatives.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 09:32:33 AM EST

Re: I can't be the only one who gets this feeling (2.00 / 1)

Blaming the voters is a losers game. The problem lies with the candidate. In the primaries Hillary Clinton made a series of strategic errors, most critically ignoring caucuses, that cost her the nomination.

Obama is making the typical Democratic mistake of reaching out to independents before solidifying his base. His campaign has focused on building a new coalition, figuring that alienated primary voters will get over it. The problem is that negative campaigning can effectively frustrate his coalition building, McCain can scare away the more conservative voters Obama is courting, and without a strong base to fall back on Obama has left himself in a tough spot.


by souvarine on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 09:59:21 AM EST

Not a Shock (2.00 / 2)

As someone much more clever than I said - the R's nominated the only person with a chance to win and the D's nominate the only person with a chance to lose.  Us stupid old D's told you this would happen - but we were called racist and ignorant and mired in the past.

But we knew.  Obama was too light-weight, he doesn't pass the common guy test...And the vote for president is a gut check vote for many people. You can rail against that reality, but it is a reality.  And we more experienced D's knew that.  

See that bad boy Bill Clinton passed the Common Joe test (a little too well some would say) and that is why the elite D's never liked him or Hillary.  But the reason why the Elites hated the Clintons is one of the primary reasons why the friggin' won.  

Oh well....I tried to avoid this...but was shouted down everywhere. I gave up spring when I saw the media and the D party heads line up for Obama.

Have fun.  But remember...you are responsible.


by emmasaint on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 10:13:11 AM EST

(c) (2.00 / 2)


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 10:48:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

nicely done! n/t (2.00 / 1)


by Neef on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 12:24:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

One more thing... (1.50 / 2)

... yeah, and there's that one other little thing that differentiates Barack from other candidates, as well as 'Common Joes', if you will.  Some feature of his, that might, just might, take a few percentage points off what some might him to expect to lead by.  

Hmmm. Can't put my finger on it.


Saxby Chambliss: Asshat
by mikeinsf on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 11:12:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One more thing... (2.00 / 1)

The Democrats knew race would be an issue and a handicap for Obama; they just assumed he would be popular enough to overcome those few percentage points.

It's a great thing that he's gotten this far, just as it is a great thing for Hillary Clinton to have reached the level she has.  

Unfortunately it may not be enough to win. The answer to "Is America ready for a black/female President?"  may actually be "Not quite yet, no. Give us one more generation."

Sad, but possibly true. Old habits die hard, but at least we can see they are in their death throes.


by SuGeAtARC on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 12:18:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One more thing... (2.00 / 1)

Mayhaps.  But the reports of his candidacy's death are greatly exaggerated. We'll know more after the conventions.


Saxby Chambliss: Asshat
by mikeinsf on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 12:30:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A black guy can win. A guy with the thinnest (none / 0)

record, MUCH thinner than Abraham Lincoln and JFK, who flipflops, cannot win. No matter what race he is.

Some people are offended by inexperience. Yes, you heard me right, it's offensive.


by catfish2 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 12:55:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A black guy can win. A guy with the thinnest (none / 0)

Some are offended by war mongers.  Different strokes.


Saxby Chambliss: Asshat
by mikeinsf on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 12:59:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

no way (2.00 / 1)

In a country that voted Bush in twice, I refuse to believe anyone is offended by something as substantive as experience.

It's just not consistent


by Neef on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:02:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Experience gives voters a window (none / 0)

into how the candidate would handle the pressure cooker of the presidency. Sure he intends to have world peace, but when the nation is under attack will he overreact?


by catfish2 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:16:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

fish in the muck (none / 0)

Hey catfish.  You troll-rated me for suggesting that Obama's numbers might be affected by his race?  Is that a no-go topic, or are you abusing troll-ratings just because you disagree?


Saxby Chambliss: Asshat
by mikeinsf on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:22:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're not doing blacks any favors (none / 0)

by using race as an excuse. He has shattered so many barriers. Now when the polls move away from him, it's because of race? The people were for him before they were against him, so race is not it.


by catfish2 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:49:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's mucked up (none / 0)

  1.  Total misuse of TR.  
  2.  I actually think he's doing fine.  It's tightening, but I'm not worried.  The electoral map isn't bad at all.
  3. That said, to pretend race doesn't affect the race is naive or purposely deceptive.
  4. But I really don't think you give a crap. It's all about tearing BO down 24/7.

Saxby Chambliss: Asshat
by mikeinsf on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:59:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I care a lot. (none / 0)

You have no idea who you are talking to. It's beyond the tipping point - race is brought up so much that people fear he'd be a president that won't be held accountable.

"But you started a war for no good reason." Racism! Trotting out the angry black man trope.

"He's skinny." Racism!

"He's The One." Racism! That's code for he's "uppity." (Uh - so Oprah called Obama "uppity"? OK.)

"He's inexperienced." Racism!

"He supplanted the flag on his plane with his own logo." Racism!

"He blew off the troops to work out in a gym." Racism!

"He showed questionable judgement." Racism!

"He's naive wanting to talk with foreign leaders without preconditions." Racism!


by catfish2 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:31:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I care a lot. (2.00 / 1)

I didn't say any of those things. I, as in me, not anyone else, said race will affect his candidacy.  That's a totally defensible and reasonable statement.  Don't superimpose hysterical statements onto me. It's certainly not a trollish thing to say, and certainly no worse than some of the stuff you serve up.

And, yes, I have no idea who you are.  Why don't you tell us....?


Saxby Chambliss: Asshat
by mikeinsf on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:47:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

a small window (2.00 / 2)

at best, and poorly-used by the electorate.

How would a 20 year governor react to an attack from another nation? It's not typically something he deals with. The only experience that's really relevant to being President is being President. Well, Pres and VP.

The "experience" thing also assumes a certain amount of research, and character judgment, on the part of the voter. Still not seeing either in your average voter, sorry. Want proof?

A cheap tire gauge may have more impact than a very serviceable energy plan.


by Neef on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:26:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How old are you (none / 0)

The older you get, the more you can recognize when experience is an asset and when it's a liability.


by catfish2 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:45:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Muck (none / 0)

By that measure, you're voting for McCain?  Can't beat his experience.  Bet you wish Cheney would run, too, eh?

No, really.


Saxby Chambliss: Asshat
by mikeinsf on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:00:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Silly Mike didn't read the comment (none / 0)

When experience is an asset and when it's a liability. Run along little one.


by catfish2 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:26:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hi Down There! (none / 0)

Ol' catfish feeling a little condescending today?  I've been enthralled by your D-grade reasoning for some time now.  How ironic that you would be the one to tell me to "run along".  

You've been trolling around here for awhile now, and it's you, my bottom-feeding fishy, who might want to run along back to Alegre's corner.


Saxby Chambliss: Asshat
by mikeinsf on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:52:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Boomer (2.00 / 1)

Tail end.

The only experience applicable to President is President experience. Once you can accept non-Presidential experience as a qualification, you can accept anything. For example, nothing in Obama's, Clintons, OR McCain's resume tells me how they'd react to a suitcase nuke in some city. Nothing CAN tell me. Obama has books, McCain has 30 years of missing votes, Clinton has a satisfactory if not terribly remarkable career. I have to rely on their judgment, which is incredibly hard to judge, even in person and over time.

We are kidding ourselves pretending we're really "evaluating" these people. You pick your criteria, and you go by them. I respect that 'experience' is high on some lists, I just don't accept the rationale.


by Neef on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:51:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There is bullet-point experience and then there ar (none / 0)

testing experiences. Where you're in between a rock and a hard place. Where your only choices are a and b. A pisses off one group of people, b pisses off another. And you have to choose.

Or experience of having your trust betrayed. Or your life/career being threatened. Or being abandoned by your colleagues, a sudden drop in popularity - how do you handle it? Has your career been one steady upward trajectory or have there been setbacks?

Were you there for people when they needed you? Even when it pissed off somebody powerful?


by catfish2 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 04:09:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One more thing... (2.00 / 1)

Oh yes - play the race card...keep throwing that card down --  Y'all can't help yourself. It doesn't help and for most people it just isn't true.  But if that helps you feel better about yourself.  I knew it was coming.  Regular Joe doesn't have anything to do with race...but it might have to do with a guy who bowls in a suit jacket, who makes the bitter and guns and God comments - can you imagine Bill Clinton ever saying anything like that?

Please....get off your cross and try to win this one.  The more Obama plays the race card, the bigger he will lose.  Bet on it.


by emmasaint on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 12:53:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

racism is real (none / 0)

Whatever. Out in the real world racism still exists, just like homophobia and sexism, and, yes, Obama will underperform a white candidate because of this.  Sorry if that doesn't fit your starry-eyed vision of the world.  Sorry if your distaste for BO is so overwhelming that you can't acknowledge a simple fact of American life.

I work in the service industry and can't tell you how many times I've overheard racist comments as they pertain to BO: "we can't let 'them' get too much power", "I just don't think 'we' are ready for that", etc.

And that's nothing compared to the commentary at family gatherings.  If I posted what my father says, a lot of you would want to take a bath after reading his racist remarks.

That's just how it is. Perhaps you're still bitter  about the outcome of the primaries, but that shouldn't stop you from looking at the world with a clear eye. Whether you like it or not (whether he likes it or not) race is a factor and will of course soften his numbers.


Saxby Chambliss: Asshat
by mikeinsf on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:13:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Colin Powell, Corey Booker (none / 0)

Are both candidates more electable than Obama.

It was not just Jeremiah Wright but how Obama handled Wright that makes people afraid. Wright has a good heart but he is a bit blinded by his own racism. And Obama couldn't see that.

Booker just needs to get married, keep doing what he's doing in Newark, then NJ Governor, and he's on his way.


by catfish2 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:18:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Colin Powell, Corey Booker (none / 0)

OK.  You win. Racism has been eradicated.  Thanks, 'fish.  I feel so much better.


Saxby Chambliss: Asshat
by mikeinsf on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:25:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: racism is real (none / 0)

Well since you are such a realist and this country is so horribly racist, why nominate a black guy that you feel won't win?  Don't you want to win?

Really you want it all.  You want to win and claim that the US to "let" you win.  Please. Grow up.

You are the unrealistic one.  I believe there is racism (by blacks and whites), sexism and homophobia.  All of it is wrong.  But it is real.  

So you claim the US is horribly racist and then run a black guy and pout when he doesn't win???  Whatever...you should have gotten a stronger candidate bottom line.  


by emmasaint on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 04:34:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: racism is real (none / 0)

Sorry, but I'm not "pouting".  How could I when I think Obama will win.  Nothing to put about.  I merely said that his numbers are going to be affected by his race... but he is winning.  I'm proud of the guy getting this far despite the shrunken hearts and minds of racists and PUMAs.


Saxby Chambliss: Asshat
by mikeinsf on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 01:10:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Haven't been paying attention? (2.00 / 1)

who makes the bitter and guns and God comments - can you imagine Bill Clinton ever saying anything like that?

I seem to recall the irony was that someone dug up a similar comment from Clinton in the '90s that nobody thought twice about, because it was a non-story then as it should've been now.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:17:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh no...the cross card. n/t (none / 0)


by Liberal Monk on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:52:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It has yet to be proven (2.00 / 1)

that a woman would have done any better. It's not like sexism goes away in the GE.

But whatever.


by Neef on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 12:27:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We've seen fads before (1.00 / 1)

We could see this one fading either just before the end of the primaries or just after.

Cannot believe how many older "progressives" fell for this guy.


by catfish2 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:19:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We've seen fads before (none / 0)

Your hatred is remarkable and consistent.


Saxby Chambliss: Asshat
by mikeinsf on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:41:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That wasn't a fade (none / 0)

it was a "coast".

Not that I agreed with the strategy, but after 80% probable win they just threw margarita parties while watching MSNBC.


by Neef on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 04:13:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not a Shock (2.00 / 1)

Really, it was the most experienced democratic super delegates who chose Obama.


by venician on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 04:36:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I can't be the only one who gets this feeling (none / 0)

I'm sorry to hear about your mom having a heart attack. A lot of my family has had heart problems as well. I hope she gets better.

It looks like you are from the Chicago area - what suburb? I live right at the border of Naperville and Aurora.


by bushsucks on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 11:20:09 AM EST

Re: I can't be the only one who gets this feeling (none / 0)

I'm sorry to hear about your mom having a heart attack. A lot of my family has had heart problems as well. I hope she gets better.

It looks like you are from the Chicago area - what suburb? I live right at the border of Naperville and Aurora.


by bushsucks on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 11:21:10 AM EST

Re: I can't be the only one who gets this feeling (2.00 / 1)

I get this feeling sometimes as well, but I feel confident that all of the macro level trends are going to make this election one that Obama can't lose. I just have that gut. It is time for a big change and McCain simply can't offer that.


by wasder on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 12:14:45 PM EST

diarist is absolutely correct (2.00 / 2)

Anyone who voted for Bush because s/he thought Kerry supported terrorists is too stupid to vote. A lot of people think the way you do, but in America it's not illegal to be stupid.


by highgrade on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 12:21:36 PM EST

Just like (none / 0)

some people commit such heinous crimes that they deserve to die.  Doesn't mean that we (the state) has the right to kill them, because the justice system has too many flaws.

By the same token, disenfranchisement on the basis of stupidity is anathema to a Democracy.  In a sense, it's we self-appointed smart people's failure to fail to bring the stupid along with us.  To quote Frank Zappa:

It's not getting any smarter out there.  You have to come to terms with stupidity and make it work for you.


by corph on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 12:56:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I can't be the only one who gets this feeling (none / 0)

What a juicy posting!  If I were wise, I would just let this one pass.

"Ok, perhaps superstitious was a wee bit going to far." - A wee bit?

"When I was a Republican, thoughts like that crossed my mind, and the same for many others.  "I'm gonna be rich someday, why screw myself with taxes" or some other nonsense that economic conservatives always thought." - I'd let you pay my taxes if it would help you, but not paying taxes isn't the reason why people who are conservative are conservative.

"...it is fear that is feeding that wall.  Civil rights, jobs, universal health, education, all held up by the wall waiting to be shot at by another Republican administration." - Sorry, but Republicans are for civil rights and that is why percentage-wise more Republicans voted for the 1964 civil rights act than did Democrats.  Jobs?  Who is against jobs?  Universal health care?  There are better ways to handle this issue than having the federal government indiscriminately throw money at it.  Education?  The GOP is for this too.  That's why many support vouchers or tax allowances for education.

TANSTAAFL.

Perhaps those "gullible," "idiot," "bastards" just happen to see things a bit different from you.  I doubt that makes them stupid or have parents that never married.

I realize that the launch posting here was made out of frustration.  Being frustrated is a natural human reaction.  I know because I get frustrated at liberals since they seldom see things correctly.  <---- that's just a joke.

Johnny, I would love to talk with you about the differences in our philosophies and why we believe what we do.  We surely differ and our differences could make for any interesting discussion.  Obviously, people here will agree with you and not me.  You would get plenty of support.  Does the idea of a civil and rational discussion about issues with someone who differs from you appeal to you?  If yes, how about you start a thread that provides your overarching beliefs about government and I will respond and we can go from there.  If the idea does not appeal to you, I will understand and we can end it here.  What say ye?


by LesGovt on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 12:28:13 PM EST

I do wish I had time (2.00 / 1)

to engage you on this. But the education thing stands out. Tax allowances convey benefits proportional to your income. Tax allowances for education mean the wealthiest also become the most well educated.

To me, that is an archetypal Republican position, the accrual of advantages to the advantaged. In system dynamics lingo that would be called runaway positive feedback. It's certainly a beneficial position if you're one of the top dogs, not so much for the average American.


by Neef on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 12:52:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I do wish I had time (2.00 / 1)

Personally, I don't favor tax credits or allowances.

However, as far as not having equal results, I will let Alexander Hamilton say it for me:

"He professed himself to be as zealous an advocate for liberty as any man whatever, and trusted he should be as willing a martyr to it though he differed as to the form in which it was most eligible. -He concurred also in the general observations of [Mr. Madison] on the subject, which might be supported by others if it were necessary. It was certainly true: that nothing like an equality of property existed: that an inequality would exist as long as liberty existed, and that it would unavoidably result from that very liberty itself. This inequality of property constituted the great & fundamental distinction in Society."

Alexander Hamilton, June 26, 1788, Madison's Notes on the Convention


by LesGovt on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:42:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Great quote (2.00 / 1)

But that's simply his position, are you saying you agree?

For my part, to say that inequality is a result of liberty is true, but irrelevant to the extent we value "society" as well as "liberty"

Crime is a result of liberty, obviously, yet we seek to eradicate crime. We can seek to reduce inequality under a similar rationale.


by Neef on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 03:08:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great quote (2.00 / 1)

Do I agree with Hamilton?  spit spit Not very often, but in this case, I do.

I would love to bring about equality that you talk about, but that is a dream and will never be a reality.  To do it the way you are talking about does limit liberty.  And, what we do today does not bring about equality, but makes people dependent rather than providing them with the tools to be independent.  And it takes liberty away from those who are forced to pay.

The goal of every assistance program should be to assist the individual to become self-sufficient.  That is not the goal of today's government programs.

Compassion is not how much money we throw at the problem or how many people we can provide support for, but rather how many people we can help become self-sufficient.


by LesGovt on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 03:26:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It may surprise you (2.00 / 1)

That I agree the goal of assistance is self-sufficiency. Nor do I seek true equality.

But lets not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. By lifting up the weakest of us, to whatever degree, we become stronger as a whole. Self-sufficiency is as Utopian a goal as equality - I'm not making my own power, or my own DvDs. I'm not broadcasting my news, or cleaning my streets. Interdependency is the reality we have to deal with, more now than ever before. Poor people affect us, whether we like it our not. Poorly educated people affect us, whether we like it or not. Less poverty and better education will also affect us, whether we like it or not.

Cocooning only goes so far, walls only go so high, and there are only so many suburbs to move to. We have to solve our problems, not try to out-run them.

Again, the criminal justice system provides precedent. We COULD let everyone handle their own Justice. The strong would have no problems, the weak would fall. Brawn and bullets would rise to their natural place in our power hierarchy. You could be President, CEO or Don.

But we don't do that.


by Neef on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 04:08:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It may surprise you (none / 0)

The current system will not be perfected as it is completely backwards.  Let's start by having local charities take care of people and do so not from distant Washington DC, but from the neighborhood.  They are better equipped to diagnose the situation.  If a problem exists that is preventing someone from being self-sufficient, i.e. lack of education, drug or alcohol abuse,  they can help the individual overcome that problem.

My views are taken from "The Death of American Compassion" by Marvin Olaskey.  It's an excellent book and well worth the read.


by LesGovt on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 04:25:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gotta take issue with (2.00 / 1)

Sorry, but Republicans are for civil rights and that is why percentage-wise more Republicans voted for the 1964 civil rights act than did Democrats.

Highly disingenous.  A large percentage of the Dixiecrats who voted against civil rights today call themselves Republicans, or would if they were still alive.  That's about as relevant as saying Republicans are better on civil rights because the Democratic party was pro-slavery.  Not to mention that it was the Democratic party that showed the courage and took the electoral hit for civil rights.  Republicans stood back, then cynically exploited the backlash.

Sure, Republicans are for civil rights, up until those rights conflict with their business interests or political prospects.  Black voter suppression, Marianas sweatshops, secret renditions, Gitmo, illegal spying, waterboarding, malicious prosecutions of political opponents, racially-based distinctions in mandatory minimum sentencing and well, I'm sure I've missed some.  All overwhelmingly the doing of Republicans.  This is not your Daddy's Rockefeller noblesse obligée party.  This is a cabal of power- and money-mad reactionary sociopaths.

Whatever our weak, incoherent collaborationist Democratic leadership has done lately, they're not nearly as bad as these thugs.  If you care enough about civil rights, there is no way to justify voting Republican.


by corph on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:30:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gotta take issue with (none / 0)

So let me take a stab at what you have said.  The Dixiecrats were not for civil rights so they left the party that was more against civil rights (Democrats) to join the party that was more for civil rights (Republicans).  Huh?

Please forgive me if I do not follow the logic of that.


by LesGovt on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:31:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Dixiecrats (none / 0)

were opposed to civil rights (relating to AAs anyway).  When their party's leadership started building a civil rights platform, they switched parties.  Party philosophy evolves over time, as you must know.  By switching, the Dixiecrats turned the Repulbican party into the soft-on-civil rights party.  Follow the logic now?  Heck don't take my word for it, take Keh Mehlman's.

Besides, my point is about respect for civil rights today not 45 years ago.  Care to refute any part of my enumerated list, or come up with equivalent Democratic violations under Clinton or Carter?

Argue Laffer curve stuff, government waste or ending affirmative action or something.  Then we could really spar.  Defending the recent Republican record on civil rights is like stocking a barrel with lethargic sockeye salmon and handing me an AK-47.


by corph on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 10:53:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re:Don't be Shy- Say it ! You have a Right to ! (1.00 / 1)

Don't be Shy. There is no need to hold back.

Say it. It won't kill you. ( at worst, you'll have some here whining & calling you names)

Its the growing yet unspoken feeling among literally millions of democrats.

We are all democrats here anyway.

Its the feeling that......

We just nominated the weakest democrat since Walter Mondale. Even Mike Dukakis was doing much better in August.

The only difference today is-

We have the worse economy in 40 years.

The Lowest Approval rating of any modern President in Bush.

The Lowest Approval Rating of the Republican party since Nixon

The Highest Number of Americans since Gallup started taking polls on who say that " This country is headed in the WRONG Direction.

The Most Unpopular war since Vietnam

And...

The Biggest Money Advantage of one Presidential Candidate named Obama over McCain.

Not to mention, An Expected LANDSLIDE VICTORY by Democrats in the HOUSE & the SENATE this November.

Yet, Not a Single Democrat will be able to Sleep at night until the night of November 4 since WE HAVE NO IDEA IF OBAMA CAN WIN THIS THING DESPITE HIS HISTORIC OVERWHELMING ADVANTAGE.

That's okay. At least we made history regardless if Obama goes down in defeat.

This would be a bittersweat one for the millions of liberals & African-Americans who wanted one thing only- History of a nomination at all cost.

Say it. Don't be shy !

We are all democrats. After all, over 18 million democratic primary voters DID NOT vote for this nominee. You have lots of company.

If they only listened to Jerome Armstrong. :)

" The weakest democratic candidate in this decade".

AMEN!


by labanman on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:08:48 PM EST

Wow (none / 0)

We just nominated the weakest democrat since Walter Mondale.

Hilarious.  Also stupid.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:20:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I can't be the only one who gets this feeling (1.00 / 1)

Dear Johnny,

You're having the experience many of your elders had when Reagan got elected (twice!) in the 80s, and some even elder elders had the experience in 1968 when Nixon got elected: "What kind of ridiculous backwards ignorant horrible country am I living in?"  

So.  You now see why many of us support Hillary Clinton.   Surely you know now that the Clintons are at least as progressive as Obama as he backs away from and reverses a whole list of progressive policies related to NAFTA, privacy (FISA), the environment (offshore drilling).  Hillary voted FOR privacy (FISA) and she supports universal health care (which Obama never did).    The Clintons are progressives who know how to appear sufficiently conservative to get elected.  For this they were vilified -- by progressives no less! -- as triangulators.  

Meanwhile the man with triangulation envy (he tries to do it but is supremely inartful at it) is slouching toward a big loss in November.   Too bad Obama was so effective at smearing the Clintons with lies about the Clinton administration, hateful misogyny against Hillary, and accusations of racism against them and their supporters, and so effective at 'gaming' (cheating at) caucuses.  

Now we all live with the consequences.


by miker2008 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:22:53 PM EST

What a clown (none / 0)

if you think Clinton was a progressive I have an AEDPA, a DOMA, and a welfare reform bill to sell you.  


by JJE on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:03:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What a clown (none / 0)

Ha ha.   Two months ago posts like yours would've featured NAFTA and Iraq War prominently.  Your list is shrinking isn't it?


by miker2008 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 03:16:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not really (none / 0)

Bill didn't have anything to do with Iraq so that would have been a silly thing to include.

If you saw my posts from two months ago you'd realize I'm under no illusions about the progressivism of either Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama.


by JJE on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 03:37:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not really (none / 0)

Then, heck, is it too late to nominate John Edwards?   He's the political/intellectual descendant of Jesse Jackson whom I would've loved seeing as president.  


by miker2008 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 03:44:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hubby & I had this discussion last night... (2.00 / 1)

As we watched the news and listened to Sen. Obama's explanation of his energy plan and why he was willing to agree to the off-shore drilling provisions in the Gang of 10's legislation if it would get us moving on research and development of new fuel sources. Then we listened to Sen. McCain yelling, "We've got to drill here and now. We've got to drill here and we've got to drill now. Here and now!" And I got that sick feeling that you're talking about.

There are just too many people who make their choice for President based on sound bites and viral emails. Just give 'em a few words they can repeat ad nauseam, and you've got their vote, which is what got us eight years of George W. Bush.

Karl Rove and his bag o' slogans strike again.

Sigh.


by Liberal Monk on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:32:47 PM EST

Re: This Democratic Business Owner from Ohio (2.00 / 1)

Its interesting how so many "young" people in the 20's & early 30's are proudly lecturing us democrats who have been around the block since the Carter & Reagan dark days.

Listen, speaking as a lifelong Democrat who made it in business & created thousands of jobs for my fellow Ohioans- let me say, I'm GLAD you "kids" are experiencing this.

If Obama does go down in defeat, you have NO ONE to blame but yourselves.

" We told you so."

Its the idealistic, out ot touch with reality syndrome among some youths.

By the way, See how Obama is doing poorly in Missouri & Florida today.  WATCH MY state of OHIO together with Colorado, New Mexico, Nevada, & New Hampshere, & North Carolina by October.

See what happens to Obama's numbers in these states by October.

We've seen this movie before. Unfortunately, the young ones with all the bravado had diapers on when the first movie was playing 30 years ago.

Obama's Only HOPE is this economy gets so bad. yet, that may still not be enough.

 


by labanman on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:50:22 PM EST

Wow! (2.00 / 1)

Everyone's really impressed that you're a petit bourgeois.  Truly that gives you some amazing insights.  Be sure to wear an onion on your belt!


by JJE on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:59:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Get real (2.00 / 1)

Dukakis happened on your watch. Kerry and Gore we all lived through.

But the best you got is to blame the candidates, while you sit here tearing down their support?

Classy.


by Neef on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 03:01:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This Democratic Business Owner from Ohio (none / 0)

Don't forget it's the "young ones in diapers" who will have to take care of YOU very soon. Ask yourself who will be changing your Depends??????


by venician on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 04:52:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm in my 40's... (none / 0)

and have worked around politics most of my adult life, so I'm no idealistic kid.

We're just coming up against the same problem we come up against election after election. We try to run someone intelligent enough to actually be effective. Unfortunately, our candidates don't seem to be able to dumb down their campaign messages enough to appeal to...um...a "broader" group of people.

President Clinton was able to do it because he was able to hide his intelligence behind good ol' boy language. Too bad we have to sneak the smart people into office.


by Liberal Monk on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:19:23 PM EST

Re: I can't be the only one who gets this feeling (2.00 / 1)

I agree with your point...It seems the Repugs have their finger on the pulse of the under-educated voter and they say what ever is necessary to keep them in their court.

This election Obama is not only fighting this phenomenon but I fear he is fighting another one.  IMO, there are many people that recite the smears aimed at Obama (muslim, patriotism, birth certificate, etc) as justification for not voting for him, all the while knowing they are not true.  The reason, IMO, is to make themselves feel not guilty about the true reason...prejudiced.

However, on the other hand Obama can and will combat this by running an efficient GOTV campaign that will offset these types of voters.  We, as an extension, need to help in this effort in any we can.

My prayers are with your mom and keep your head up:)


Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
by hootie4170 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 04:06:01 PM EST

Greetings everyone (none / 0)

Sorry for the delay in my responses, just got back from the hospital.  First let me thank all of you who recc'ed this diary post, it means a lot.  I wasn't sure if I did the right thing when that "publish" button was pressed.  It was about 3am when it was written and frankly couldn't sleep at the time.  It is true what they say, writing can be a cathartic experience!

Going over the latest entry, I see what many of you have been saying.  Perhaps too much undeserved tension has been developing inside of me because of my news junkie habits.  Time to tone it down a bit on the watching, perhaps just stick to watching the markets which oddly enough never excites nor bores me...kinda like watching the weather channel.  Talk radio..hrmm, that's gonna be a hard one to shake off.  I love listening to Thom Hartman and Mike Mallow and Racheal Maddow...heck virtually all of WCPT!  Haven't listened to stuff "Right on the dial" in a while, don't think I'll start anytime soon.

Ok, democracy and the "stupid" comment.  I've never said we need to deny them the right to cast a ballet.  Quiet the opposite, its just that we have such an ill-informed misguided electorate that I cringe that the fate of my friends and family are in their hands.  Not sure about some sort of test, I mean that could be turned around and used on us.

Right now, I'm gonna do what I can to help Barack.  Being disabled, walking for me is difficult so I will look into other things.  Though I'm on Social Security, I will continue to donate what I can. Anyways, like many of you wonderful folks said, I'm gonna attack my fear by being more proactive.  As Petey Green used to say "wake up God dammit!"


by johnny venom on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 09:15:09 PM EST

Re: I can't be the only one who gets this feeling (none / 0)

I had a bit of a hard time reading this johnny venom. I have run into a few of these freaks and have a sort of sick facination with the 'end of the worlders'. They are a creepy lot and I have been worried for some time that either Obama or Clinton will be the latest fodder for these lunatics. I think I remember a group that thought that Bill was the anti-christ. Sick stuff.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 05:04:37 AM EST


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